cat, i don't know what you say. if i haven't eye don't know wh to say. if i haven't gotten through to you now, all they can say is, watch your step. you and your posse don't want to anger me and you sure don't want to anger wilfred brimley. in the meantime, enjoy your first of nine lives on the "ridiculist." thanks for joining us. "john king" starts now. i'll see you monday. tell barack obama he had his chance. i love the constitution. i love the constitution. i love the tea party. >> the american people have an appetite. for a nonpolitician. i have never held public office. >> this is where barack obama got his start. this is where he's going to come to his end, in iowa.

did you get the change and the hope that you believed in? >> well, it turns out those republican candidates, they had a little competition, too. >> i don't think i'm stealing any spotlight. in fact, if anybody thinks that i'm stealing the spot, go, go find the other folks and say, hello. >> now, sarah palin wasn't in the big debate last night and she rolled into the state fair, nonetheless, even work a digalt the newest candidate texas governor rick perry as she nadknown, join the republican dance. >> there's a lot of contemplation that needs to go into earth shattering life saving decision for everyone. >> a packed hour tonight, including putting every debate statements to the truth test, like this one. >> that's right. i was very vocal against that tax, and i fought against that

tax. >> let's begin live in iowa on the eve of a republican straw poll that has no official role in the gop nominating contest, but has a history of derailing once promising candidacies. at state fair in des moines tonight a longtime conservative activist steve and our chief political correspondent, candy crowley. candy, i want to start with you and, yes, i want to start with the not so surprised visit i will call of sarah palin. she section, oh, shucks, go pay attention to the others but she was clearly, clearly tried to say, i'm still here. >> reporter: yes. and, as a matter of fact, a long time observer of iowa, he knows a few things about iowa politics and he said listen, i think she's going to get in. i mean, why else would you show up here? i'd only say to that, because right now sarah palin's job basically is, you know, speeches and raising money for her pact

and staying visible certainly helps that. but she gives out all of the signals that she's going to run and that she sure is thinking about it. i think most of the betting is that she won't but she likes to leave that door open for a lot of reasons, i think. >> steve scheffler i know that you were watching last night and one of the big dynamics is the minnesota governor tim pawlenty needs to win iowa. and michele bachmann probably needs to win iowa. i want you to listen to the debate that we'll call "minnesota spice." >> it's an undisputable fact that in congress her record of accomplishment and results is nonexistent. >> governor, when you were governor in minnesota, you implemented cap and fraid our state and you praised the unconstitutional mandate. >> it's not her spine that we're worried about. it's her record of results. if that's your view of leadership, please stop. because you're killing us. >> you said the era of small government was over. that sounds a lot more like

barack obama, if you ask me. >> now, you might be surprised there. you are hear michele bachmann saying tim pawlenty said the era of small government is over. before we get on steve scheffler, we want to check. did a republican really say that? yes he did in an interview in 2006 with the "minneapolis star-tribune." governor pawlenty said -- so congressman bachmann was telling the truth when she said that. steve scheffler, one of the minnesota candidates, do we lose one of them tomorrow at the straw poll? >> i think they both have to do very well tomorrow. i don't think that if they come in third place, that it's necessarily a death nail but i think it will help their candidacies if they come in a close first or second so yeah there is a lot at stake here but i would say they would have to end up in at least the top three, that's for sure. >> at least the top three.

candy, you talked to senator santorum today. he's one of the lesser known candidate bus he says that he has to come in the top five. explain to our viewers, this event has nothing, nothing to do with delegates, nothing do with who gets to be the nominee officially and yet a pretty good history. anything you say, it is a bit of a circus act and has pushed some incredible candidates off the cliff. >> reporter: right. it doesn't pick winners but it can choose some winners here. i talked to somebody today and i said this is one of the most meaningful, meaningless event that i think we've covered in politics because everybody sort of trashes and says, this is a fund-raiser for the republican party and it is indeed that. it shows you, can these people, some of whom have been on the ground for quite some time, can they get their supporters together on a saturday and to spend a full saturday listening to speeches in august, in iowa and get them to go to this straw poll. there's a certain amount of

coordination and how is your campaign going test to it. but on the other hand, the votes don't count towards the caucuses. they don't count toward anything. everybody has to pay $30 in order to get in, so that they can go vote. so there's a lot of sort of markers in here that tell you that this is not an exact test. but it's become a very important test and quite a good fund-raiser for the republican party here. >> i am going to ask candy and steve scheffler to stand by for a moment. jon huntsman is not on the straw poll ballot and will skip the iowa caucuses and was in iowa to make his debate debut before moving on to new hampshire. governor huntsman with us now from new hampshire. it was your debate debut last night in iowa and i want to read the review from the des moines register. he was a scoop of vanilla in a dish of rocky road. smooth, a little bland and different from the rest. huntsman isn't campaigning in iowa and his positions such as defending civil unions for same-sex couples would scuttle

him with most gop caucusgoers. i guess not the greatest review. are you vanilla, a scoop of vanilla and a dish of rocky road? >> listen, all you can do is be yourself. all you can do is run on your record, not from your record. we're very pleased to be in this race. we are a blue sky people here in america. we want solutions. we want to find ways to get out of the most difficult economic circumstances and sadly and rarely get a chance to talk about the things done in in country, articulate a record from the state of utah where we had historic tax cuts, created the most business-friendly environment and took that state to the number one creator in terms of jobs. same thing that needs to happen in this country. didn't get around to talk about, for example, where we are in afghanistan. we fought the good war for ten

years and this should not be about nation building. we should bring our folks home and recognize the reality of this situation which is a counterterror effort. >> you did repeatedly say in the debate, i'm running on my record. you mentioned tax cutting and defended your position on civil unions, gop voters won't like that and explained your position and one issue in the past where you said on illegal immigration, secure the border, get tougher there but also deal with reality. there are, whether it's 12 million or 20 million people, people dispute the numbers here in the country illegally. your position in the past has been, we have to deal with that. we're not going to pick them up and kick them out but here's what you said last night of course. >> i'm simply going to prove to the american people that we can secure the border. that's what they want done and i'm not going to talk about anything else until we get it done. secure the border. >> that's what john mccain did in the last campaign. he was someone who said find a path to status, or he in one case, citizenship for them and then when it became so controversial on the right, he said secure the border first and then we'll deal with everything else.

isn't that in a way running from your record. >> no. i still stand by everything that i said in the past. all i'm saying is, we've got to prove to the american people that we can take one step initially that will build a sense of confidence in this broader discussion of immigration and there's nothing more important to the american people besides proving the point that we can secure the border. >> eight candidates up on stage. the governor rom neerk the former governor of massachusetts is perceived as the national front-runner rights now. everybody knows that the economy is issue number one and as the candidates press their case and press their case against the incumbent, president obama, governor romney said this -- >> i understand how the economy works. herman cain and i are on the stage here who have worked in the real economy. someone who spent their entire career in government, they can chose a lot of folks. but if they want to choose somebody who understands houtprivate sector works, they're going to have to choose one of us because we've been in it during our career. >> governor romney understand the private sector and the economy better than governor huntsman? >> well, all you have to do is

look at the record, jon. in massachusetts you had a lot of people leave that state because of the economic circumstances and state that was 47th in terms of job creation. our state was number one. you had a state that basically visit onned a mandated escalate and quality drop. in our state, we basically relied on the free market approach to connecting people with the insurance policies. you saw tax increases, fee increases in the state of massachusetts. in our state, we had historic tax cuts. i believe when you go up against somebody like president obama who has zero record to stand on as it relates to expanding the economy and creating jobs, our party is going to want a nominee that basically comes from a background that speaks the success. that's not 47th. that's first. >> and yet if you're running on your record and you believe that you have this stronger record to compare to governor romney's for example, "salt lake tribune"

poll today. utah republican voters, that's your state, choice for president, romney 71. huntsman, 13. why do the folks back home think governor romney is a better nominee? >> well, he's been running for president for 35 years out there. i was governor of the state. i covered every single county. if you're going to switch from being governor and i think a well respected governor that won close to 80% to running for president where somebody has been doing it for a lot of time, it's going to take a while to transition into that position. but poll they like best, john, was out a few weeks ago and it had a head to head against president obama. and i came out number one by a long shot in that poll and i think that's the poll that matters most to the people of utah and that's the poll that will matter most to the people of this country. >> governor jon huntsman campaigning tonight in utah. governor, we'll see you campaigning on the trail. >> thank you, i appreciate it. >> take care, sir. still ahead, a closer look at the palin factor.

>> it's kind of even a sexist notion to consider the two women would be kind of duking it out. if i'm going to duke it out, i'm going to duke it out with a guy. and next back live to iowa. how the straw poll works and how the debate reflected the high stakes.li en until i almost lost my life. my doctor's again ordered me to take aspirin. and i do. [ male announcer ] be sure to talk to your doctor before you begin an aspirin regimen. [ mike ] listen to the doctor. take it seriously. with aveeno nourish plus moisturize. active naturals wheat formulas target and help repair damage in just 3 washes. for softer, stronger... ... hair with life. [ female announcer ] nourish plus. only from aveeno. for softer, stronger... ... hair with life. the eagle flies at dawn. the monkey eats custard. price-line ne-go-ti-a-tor. so, you've been double crossed by other travel sites and now you want to try the real deal. yes, is it true that name your own price... ...got even easier? affirmative. we'll show you other people's winning hotel bids. so i'll know how much to bid... ...and save up to 60%

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back live to iowa. let's take a look at how this quirky poll works. that's ames, iowa. republicans doing it for a long time, as candy crowley noted, it's a fund-raiser. these are the candidates that

have paid for space. you pay for space here. ron paul has the premium space right here. mitt romney paid for that a few years ago. these candidates that you see here. $30,000, people coming right in. senator santorum, governor pawlenty, congressman paul, they have paid for premium space. these are candidates who are on the ballot. speaker gingrich, governor huntsman and governor romney, they're not paying for space. they say they're not really playing but they're on the straw ballot. so how does this work out? so what happens here? folks can show up, come to the tents in the morning, all show up from all over iowa. they bus in and buy their tickets in a lot of cases. candidates all give speeches and people cast ballots. you get the picture. it's a straw poll. that's,works and if you go back in time, look at winners. george h.w. bush in '79. pat robertson in '87. bob dole and phil graham, they tied in 1995. i was there. george bush wins in '99. mitt romney in 2007. so does the winner of the straw poll, boom, do they go on to be the nominee? no. ronald reagan, george h.w. bush,

bob doll did do it here. bush did do it here. john mccain was the nominee in 2007. what happens on saturday doesn't necessarily mean there's your winner in the race. here's what it can do. this is the impact of the straw poll. he's a governor and then a senator. governor alexander, elizabeth dole, their presidency ended in the days our hours because of their performance being so week. that was in the 2000 cycle. in the last cycle former governor tompson, former senator brownback, boom, gone because of poor expectations, straw poll performances. what do you look for in 2012? number one, governor pawlenty has to center a strong showing. he's from neighboring minnesota. number two, congressman paul has a strong grassroots connection. do they win for a top three showing. there's a write-in option. governor perry is announcing that he won't be in iowa. will iowans be mad or might they write him in?

i will do this for fun. it really doesn't count but what you don't want to be though is somebody who is didn'ted to be in the car when it leaves to be left behind. let's get back now live to our guest now the iowa. candy crowley of course in the freedom coalition, steve scheffler, even evangelicals, some people report about that, like yourself, very important in this iowa caucus. very important in the straw poll tomorrow because of organizational skills. michele bachmann was interviewed her husband said you should be a tax lawyer and oh god that's last thing that i want to do. and decided to take his advice to be submissive because the lord wanted her to be submissive to her husband. here's her answer. >> marcus and i will be married 33 years this september 10th. i'm in love with him. i'm so proud of him. and both he and i, what submission means to us, if that's what your question is, it means respect.

i respect my husband. he's a wonderful godly man and a great father and he respects me as his wife. that's how we operate our marriage. we respect each other, we love each other. >> i was having a couple of e-mail conversations with ties to the evangelical community. she obviously has support in that community but she got pretty good reviews for that answer last night and a lot of people are probably saying what is this all about. explain why it matters. >> i think she did an excellent job in answering that question. i think it is pretty disgusting, though, that the press even ask her that question. i can't imagine in a million years that a liberal/democrat candidate running for president would ever be asked that question. and i think she gave the perfect answer and it's what most of us evan gel cals and non-evangelicals would agree when she gave that answer last night candy you have this

pawlenty/bachmann is one of the biggest drama tomorrow. one of them will probably have their candidacy wounded by this. what other subplots should we be look for? >> reporter: well, you know, think there are actually a lot of things, a lot of people who have their fate tied up in this. and it may take a month, may take two months because, remember it's not really that you lose the iowa straw poll, it's that people see you losing it and that's when the money dries up. and you just can't get from august in iowa to january in iowa. i'm sorry. february of this year in iowa. or new hampshire without money. so who is kind of on the ropes? rick santorum, who has said he has to place at least in the top five. herman cain, he hasn't really pute he says, he has to do well. most of them at least put a number on it but he has to do well because they need that money to move forward. it's not enough as you move on not enough to have the ability to put ads on the air and paid

staff on the ground. so you are looking at newt gingrich. newt gingrich can get along on a shoestring, but nonetheless, there are times when you do really poorly, as santorum said to me, listen, if i don't do well, if i don't place in that top five, it says something about the structure it says, i don't have the vehicle i need to go from here and win the caucuses. so i think there will be a lot of gut checks, as we say, a lot of looking at the numbers after this iowa straw poll comes in, because the numbers are directly tied to the money and the money is directly tied to the ability to move on. >> and, steve scheffler to candy's point about organization. when we go through in every four years, some people say it doesn't count. why does it get so much attention but we often do learn, either about a surprised candidate who has a deeper organization than we might have thought, or more appeal, or a surprise issues that is motivating people to turn out what is unique, in your view, but this year? >> what's unique about what now?

>> about this campaign. what makes it different from years past? >> this -- you mean this straw poll cycle? is that what you're talking about? >> yes, sir. >> i think this is the first year in many, many years, that has been this fluid. this late if the race. it's not late for country, per se, but it's late for iowa and so i think that brings some excitement to the air, and i think those candidate it's this test tomorrow is absolutely crucial, because it shows their organizational muster. and so i think you know the winning out process is not necessarily a bad process because these candidates to need to show their organizational muster before they get to the caucuses in february. >> steve scheffler, candy crowleycro crowly, you appreciate you live out at the iowa state fair. enjoy the fair tonight while you're doing your jobs out there. appreciate it very much. when we come back, still ahead, the sarah palin factor. will she run? we'll talk to somebody who knows her well and a rock and roll week on wall street comes to an end. we'll check in on that, too.er a

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a lot of you complain that sarah palin gets so much attention even those of you who are not running for the presidential nomination. if you're running for this race, you cannot ignore her potential impact and it would be easier to ignore her if, say, she did not show up in new hampshire during

mitt romney's tour critical to her potential rivals. the media circus was inevitable and to see her eagerly ignoring some questions and eagerly answering others, is the tea party the reason for the credit downgraded, she said the tea party deserves credit for keeping the conversation about the debate going here. so when will she tell us if she's in or out? >> i'm not the only one who has not decided yet and not ready to announce one way or the other yet because there's still a lot of contemplation that needs to go into such an earth-shattering, life-changing decision for a family. >> cnn's peter hamby is as good of a palin tracker that you can find and he's live at the iowa state fair tonight. sorry to take you away from the corndogs and the chocolate-wrapped bacon or whatever it is out there. peter, she comes to the state fair today. you were on her bus tour, the one nation bur us to that made

its way up the east coast, and said hello to romney during his tour. it was striking, obviously she picked the timing on purpose and one of the things that she said, i want people to listen closely. she was the former governor of alaska, obviously. rick perry is the governor of texas now. the governor of texas as we learned from george w. bush days, doesn't have much powers as other governors and sarah palin decided to point that out. >> you have different functions in the state of texas and the state of alalca in terms of governing powers in the governor's office. so kind of tough to compare with the executive duties are. a very, very strong governor's office form of government up there. but he's a great guy and i look forward to seeing him in those debates. >> maybe, peter, i'm making too much of this. but we have a very strong governor in alaska. he's a great guy. >> reporter: yeah. that was not just the only gentle criticism that she made

of -- of rick perry. they is a close, warm, friendly relationship. but she also said that perry is sort of flip-flopped. she said she was surprised that he changed his position on whether or not he's going to run. i think what you're seeing here, john, is palin is keeping alive the prospect of her candidacy and she realizes that rick perry and her have a lot of similarities. you know, their appeal to tea party activists and social conservatives and also the potential to raise a lot of money. so she's trying to kind of keep a little bit of a window open there by kind of gently pressing rick perry. you know, that's her prerogative. she's here in iowa today, as you said, kind of making a splash, stealing attention from the rest of the candidates. >> and we know the other candidates grumble about that privately, peter but what about watwa activists? you're out there talking to people whole turn out for straw polls, who has helped organize for the caucuses, who send the

e-mails, who pound on the doors, who sign up at churches for the leaflets. are they annoyed at this or do they say she can take as long as she wants? >> there are some private grumblings but two things on that front. one, minutes before palin arrived here in iowa, tim pawlenty, the former minnesota of governor, is walking around with a handful of aides. people didn't recognize the guy and 30 minutes later sarah palin is mobbed not just by supporters but honest voters, well-wishers, people wanting to get their picture with her and todd palin. that kind of grass root support that other candidates just don't have. and people question whether or not palin is laying the ground work for a campaign, doing those traditional things that you do when you went from president, line-up steering committees and donors and that sort of thing. palin promised today if she did run, she would build out a very grassroots campaign and was

being serpid through this crowd by an iowa crowd and after she left us, she's doing a little bit of work on the side just in case she does decide to run, john. >> just in case. peter hambly live at iowa state fair tonight. thanks, peter. also most political pros what sarah palin is, and most shrug. she doesn't trust the political establishment. one exception is fred malek who is dated back to the nixon days. malec is from aspen with us tonight. it's good to see you. you've been sarah palin's escort. you've introduced her to people. is she going to run? >> sarah palin is a friend and i think she does a great job of energizing people and getting people interested in voting. i think we owe a great debt of gratitude. i don't think you're going to see her on the ballot but i think that she will continue on have influence because she does suck up a lot of oxygen in the

room and she really does bring a lot of attention to wherever she goes so i think she'll be influential, i think she'll be a part of the process but i don't expect to see her on the ballot. having said that, i do believe, john, that our nominee in the next president of the united states is going to be a governor or a former governor but it's not going to be sarah palin. >> well, then, why do this? you know her well, you've been through this with george h.w. bush, you've been through this with john mccain, you've been through this with others. you know what it is like to be especially if you're one of those candidates who desperately needs a good straw poll showing, the last thing that you need is sarah palin to roll into the state fair today. why does she do then, then? >> well ican't answer that, i think that you have to ask her and i think that john did asker in a previous interview. i think why she does it though, she feels that she belongs at the center of the activity. i think she wants to have an influence on this race. i think she wants to bring more attention to it and bring more people out and ensure that the tea party is and other members of the center right are out there supporting the candidates. i think it's a good thing. i think she brings people out

and i'm all for it. but i do not believe that she's going to run. now i don't know that. i haven't talked to her in a couple of months. she hasn't told me one way or another. i think it's highly improbable that she's going to run. fortunately, we have four other governors or former governors who are running, and all of them are really qualified to lead the country. >> i think the fact that she hasn't called you and asked you to help raise money, i think that speaks volumes. let me ask you, you mentioned governors and former governors in the race. who do you think, at this early moment, you saw the debate last night, governor perry wasn't there. but who at this early moment do you think is the best person, both from a record's standpoint and an energy standpoint, a debating skills standpoint to stand up against barack obama? >> we really have four of them but let me mention a couple of things. one, what this country is thirsty for, john, what this country needs is leadership. we are in an absolute quagmire. we need a proven record of

leadership and it's only the governors that have done it. mitt romney did a debate last night and he's led in the private sector and he's led as a governor and he's led as salt lake olympics. rick perry has created more jobs in the state of texas than the rest of the country combined over his ten years of governor and tim pawlenty has governed highly successfully and in the blue state of over eight years and demonstrated that a conservative can balance the budget and create jobs. so we have great candidates out there. any one of whom will match up well because they are leaders, the man -- is not a leader and i believe one of those three will be. >> fred malek, appreciate your time from aspen. and if governor palin does call, give me a call. >> will do. still ahead is a constitution to block cell phone service for everyone because you think that protesters might be texting to organize and next, he was once george w. bush's lieutenant governor and now rick perry wants to bring cowboy boots back to the oval office. i can't wait to take 'em out, throw 'em away and never see them again. [ male announcer ] know the feeling? get the contacts you've got to see to believe.

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welcome back. here's the latest news you need to right now. an oklahoma man is under arrest tonight for allegedly placing a

pipe bomb. the fbi says the suspect had similar bombs in his home but isn't a disgruntled worker or connected to any terrorist group. tanks and troops from syria's military moved into yet another town today to put down anti-government demonstrations whi while thugs opened fire on demonstrations in hama. an important but not definitive ruling, the fight over health care reform. congress doesn't have at power to force you to buy insurance. that's the exact opposite of an earlier ruling from an appeals court in ohio. and a similar case, still yet before another court in virginia. keep an eye in the atlantic this weekend. there are four areas of disturbed areas that could develop in tropical storms. one near bermuda is already a tropical depression. after a weekend of ups and downs, wall street had an up day today. dow industrials closed nearly 126 points higher but for the week they are down 1.5%. a wild week in global markets, too. let's talk things over with

richard quest of cnn international's quest means business. >> richard quest, you're a pro at this. one of the most volatile weeks, at least in my memory. what did we learn? are we going to stay on a flat stretch? >> the second part of the question, i simply have to say i don't know. the first part of the question, we learned, i think, this week that we're in a new paradigm. the market which did something that we've never seen before, four successive day of fou four 400-point moves from close to close and that tells us that we're in a new era. we have to get used to it. we've always known that volatility was increasing especially as a result of high-frequency trading, strategiesing more powerful computers but the ability of major markets, mature markets to make such dramatic swings does give us cause for thought and

pause for reflection. >> and at the end of the week here in the united states we get some encouraging retail sales numbers, we get encouraging downward slide in first-time claims for unemployment. so that's a reason to think, maybe, maybe, some building blocks. but still a lot of uncertainties on your side of the pond about the eurozone and the debt crisis? >> yeah, you are a glass half full man tonight, i could just as easily point out to you, the consumer sentiment numbers from the university of michigan, which were the worst for three decades. consumer sentiment and consumers are two-thirds of the u.s. economy. now, i don't say that just to pour water and to be the -- going into the weekend. i say it because it shows the uncertainty of what is taking place. >> volatility ahead. likely as well. richard quest in london. appreciate it, sir. let's take one quick look at how this could impact you. imagine an average 401(k), about $75,000 invested in the

pretty predictable s&p july funds. remember in july, that's when the debt debate took off. $75,000 then, you'd have about 63 today. that is what has happened over the past few weeks of volatility. ouch. when we come back texas governor rick perry joins the 2012 presidential race. prescription strength relief from my worst allergy symptoms. so lily and i are back on the road again. with zyrtec® i can love the air®.

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rick perry's getting a lot of attention because rick perry the texas governor makes it official tomorrow. at the annual conservative red state gathering. red state sufficient course led by our cnn contributor erick erickson. is he your guy or are you just being nice introducing him? . >> i'm introducing him. i'mtrigue very hard to stay neutral in this and give people my objective feedback of what i think of the candidates. i do like him? i like him a lot, he's a good friend but i like tim pawlenty and michele bachmann and herman cain and several of the others. >> we've talked about some grumbling and some happens every four years and this year feels in a higher volume. i want you to listen to governor perry. this is with our affiliate. >> my hope is that in four years, people can take a look at what the we've done in washington, d.c. and they know that i have made washington,

d.c. less consequential in their lives. >> soft spoken there but that's an important message to conservatives, no? >> it very much is and that's way hear a lot. george bush wanted to go to washington to change the tone and largely the failure of changing the tone of washington. rick perry just wants to go to washington and make it less consequential. it's very interesting one of the common threads that i hear among social conservatives and libertarians who really don't like social conservatives is they want the "leave meet heck alone" caucus to win. none of the candidates seem to be sending that message. john, the most profound about this in the past 48 hours i've literally been inundated with e-mails. wanting to see if i can get them into having face time with governor perry. i can't do it, by the way. but a lot of these guys, some of whom who've pledged to other candidates in the past and seem to be pledging to other candidates right now. it seems like there is a profound lack of candidate excitement about the other candidates and if perry can hold

on and not be a paper tiger and then i think that he may get some real traction. >> day 90 and day 100 and day 80 will matter a lot more than day one. but on day one, governor perry hurts who in the field the most? >> i think that governor perry probably hurts in the field the most on day one, tim pawlenty, who is really running to be the alternative to mitt romney, the conservative evangelical who has also got a good fiscal record but i really do think that it hurts mitt romney as well. romn romneys s hurts mitt romney as well. romn romneyss had this perception -- better than the reality. that number's been going down, down, down and once he crosses the psychological threshold of most people thinking that he won't be the nominee i think that perry with the fresh face, i think that people will go with perry. >> erick erickson, good luck

with the red state gathering. we'll see you next week. >> thanks very much. >> thank you. so is perry the great new conservative hope or will he fizzle? let's talk to donna brazile. cnn contributors. let me put on the table, here's one potential. as governor of texas, he had the george w. bush and early john mccain position on immigration. he actually signed legislation saying that children of illegal immigrants could go to school at texas at the state resident rate and here's when he said to describe to support for that. you must describe in a texas classroom, we don't care where you come from but where you are going and we're going to do everything that we can to get there. and that vision must include the children of undocumented workers. alex castellanos in a tea party-driven republican party, might that be a speed bump, if not a roadblock for a governor perry? >> i think in a very conservative republican party that might be a speed bump along with governor perry spending a lot of money in texas. it's a large state. he tried to expand something called the trans texas corridor

which is a new highway system for the next 50 years in texas. that would have take answer lot of texas land, big government grabbing private land. so there are a lot of things that he's going to have to deal with. one of them is that some of the growth in jobs in texas have been government jobs. so he's got a little bit of explaining to do there. but right now this election, john, unlike the last one that was about hope and change, this election is about strength and certainty. and texas' strength may sell this election. >> alex says texas strechkt may sell. immigration is one question. we'll have to deal with conservative critics. another issue that could come up, some tea party people occasionally get so mad at washington, they say their states should least union. i want you to listen to governor perry at a tea party rally whether texas should least union is on the table. >> since the u.s. constitution was first ratified, the federal government has slowly steadily and successfully eroded the notion of state's rights. the founding fathers understood something.

they understood that one size fits all doesn't work. it sure doesn't work in a country as big in america and it darned sure doesn't work in texas. >> size him up. >> well, first of all, i knew him when he was a democrat, that was back in the 1980s, when he ran as an agricultural commissioner. he is someone who is quite personable. he can relate to a lot of people. he's from west texas. comes from a -- >> does he worry you, does he worry you more than those other republicans that you saw on the stage up there last night? >> i'm not worried, john. i'm trying to let democrats know this is one texan they better took seriously just like they took george w. bush seriously. he knows how to run. he will run to his right and run as you saw with that clip to try to out-tea party even the most extreme tea party members. he will be a crowd pleaser. initially. but once you get on see his record as texas governor i think that people will run away from

him. >> in a sentence, how would you run against rick perry? >> oh, i would totally take him on. take on this so-called texas miracle. because once you get away from all of the myths, you'll see that rick perry is a big government guy. >> alex castellanos, in closing will we talk about rick perry in three months or will he be campaign for fred thompson? >> i think he's not yet demonstrated he can last. i think governor romney has been around this track and you saw that presence on the stage last night. i'd still bet on romney, but could be. and by the way, john, if you were here, i'd buy you a fried beer. they sell everything fried here. >> have one for me, alex, all right? >> me too. >> that way i don't have to go to the gym to work it out. enjoy your time on a friday night. enjoy the fair, my friend. how far can police go if they think there will be trouble in the streets. should they shut off everyone's cell phone? it just happened. that's next. or before you begin an aspirin regimen. talk to your doctor, and take care of what you have to take care of.

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is this the right call or wrong call, to head off a planned demonstration against police brutality last night? last night authorities for the bay area rapid transit system, b.a.r.t. for short set off all of the cell phone system figuring it would disrupt the protest organizers. a lot of people think that's going too far. >> if you can't get any cell service and something happens, what are you going to do? absolutely nothing. >> with us from san francisco, the b.a.r.t. deputy police chief. chief that's an extraordinary step. how did you reach the judgment you could do that? what if there was a pregnant

woman who needed medical attention and without warning they pick up their cell phone and it's not working? >> we had adequate staff there present at the station as well as i had actually staffed each train going through that area in both directions with b.a.r.t. personnel. on top of that, we already have in each car, there are two intercomes one at each end of the train, 20 intercoms and courtesy phones and as well as station agents and one has to keep in mind that the cell service was just limited to that small area. a simple couple of steps up a staircase would have given them access to cellular service. >> so michael richard does that meet the test? that the chief had a problem, he was worried about disruption, emergency personnel and intercoms and the like? >> we have become accustomed to use our cell phones when we need to come in touch with a loved one and have an emergency but

need to be able to do that. but more importantly, all over the world right now, people are using mobile devices to organize, to demonstrate against repressive regimes, and we as a people, rightly condemn it when the regimes turn around and cut off the cell service so they can't demonstrate. what does it mean that's happening here in san francisco right here in america, where we hold out the promise of the freedom of speech and the freedom of assembly? whether or not -- >> mr. richard, no circumstances or is there some circumstances where the chief maybe disagree with the threshold here, but is there any circumstance where it would be the right call? >> to stop a mere demonstration? no, i don't think so. people have the right to demonstrate, people have the right to assemble. that's what our first amendment and state constitution guarantee. we're not talking about bomb threats or anything like that here. that would present a very different question. we're talking about people who wanted to demonstrate against the government because for whatever reason there was a police-involved shooting, a man was killed, that obviously makes people very angry.

>> chief, were you trying to disrupt just a demonstration, which this is america, sir, or did you have intelligence suggesting there would be something more than that? >> i can tell you i've spent an entire career trying to protect people's rights to do exactly what they were talking about doing but in this case it went well beyond just a mere demonstration. there were layers upon layers of information leading us to believe there was going to be serious safety issues and when it comes down to it, i think would i want my loved one, my wife, my daughter or someone else close to me on one of those platforms in a dangerous situation, and the answer is no. and i think the vast majority of people would agree if they knew all of the facts as to what was just going on. it was much more than just a mere demonstration. >> this is evolving, for social networking, for good or bad. do you concede there needs to be a dialogue wherein police should have that power? >> absolutely there needs to be a dialogue and needs to be transparency. we don't know exactly what